Pro-life v. Pro-Choice

Pharmacists are there to dispense pills. If they want to preach, they should have majored in religious studies. If they work for a company that dispenses the morning after pill, say a national pharmacy chain, then they better do their job or lose it.

If a doctor doesn't want to face having to do an abortion, he/she should go into a specialty that doesn't require them.

Your making my point. But if thats the case I had to go to war I think they should make you as well since Obama wants afie troops upped after all you shouldnt live in amrica if you do not want to fight its wars right? The need to make you go if you dont like it you sholdnt live here right?

Thats basiclly your arguement.

No one is forced into become a pharmacist or a pharmacy tech, Tim.

A career is a bit different than citizenship.

Many people go into medicine because of a desire to HELP people and to help them get better. Pregnancy is not an illness or disability. It's a natural human condition. You wouldn't be here if your mother didn't get pregnant. It's an oddity of life - a farce - that all pro-abortion people have already been born.

To tell - ORDER - a person who signed on to the Health Care field that part of their job is to kill people is monstrous. I agree with the military analogy.

Oh - and you should get your terminology right. Pro-life is not just anti-abortion - it's also anti-capital punishment. If a person is in favor of capital punishment, but opposed to abortions, then they are not "pro-life", they are anti-abortion.

Likewise "pro-choice" is not in favor of choice since the developing baby has no choice. Such a person is pro-abortion.

If the proper, actual, truthful terminology bothers you, perhaps you should re-examine your position. If proper factual terminology doesn't bother you, why do you dance around it with euphemisms?

Sure, call it as it is. Anti-choice.

Pro-choice means women choose, not the men who raped them, not the step-fathers who abused them.

Anti-choice means taking away a woman's ability to determine the course of her own life. Anti-choice means preferring that abortions be made illegal, forcing women to either resort to illegal measures or the old "throwing herself down the stairs" (which endanger both their lives and future fertility), or bear children who will grow up in situations likely to be filled with poverty (as the number one reason given for abortion is "I can't afford a baby") and/or abuse, as the child is unwanted. Or, hey, flood the already overcrowded foster care system with thousands of unwanted babies, let them ALL starve.

You want fewer abortions? Work to solve poverty. Convince men to step up and take responsibility, not knee-jerk "It ain't MINE" or refuse to pay support.

Standing around waving signs and screaming at scared teenage girls is nothing but showboating and "look at me, I CARE" bullcrap. If you care, DO something about the problem.

So all pregnant women who have abortions have either been raped or molested by step fathers? I think that's not a very intelligent comment, and I SERIOUSLY doubt it would meet the BS test.

Every article I've read, every compilation of data I've seen on the subject indicates that abortion is primarily FOR CONVENIENCE ONLY - ie the woman can be pro-choice when it comes to spreading her legs willingly without insisting on birth control from the man or herself, but she doesn't bother.

Poverty doesn't cause abortions. (It doesn't cause crime, either.)

And you blame men for not stepping up and taking responsibility, after you say it's not our business, it's the WOMAN'S choice and business. You tell men to STAY THE HELL OUT of the decision making process, yet expect them to foot the bills? It takes two, baby - two to tango, two to deal - but YOU exclude men from the process between the time the woman is through having a good time to the time you want some money.

Now tell me why the men involved with these btitches don't want to "take responsibility!" YOU bring it on your self. Sucks to be you. (generic "you")

Abortion is premeditated murder. Period. Try to alibi out of it when you stand before God on judgement day.

I try to be reasonable until someone all puffed up and full of herself comes up and SLAPS me in the face. Screw you. I paid my child support for nearly 20 years, and raised somegreat kids from my second marriage. MOST guys DO step up and take responsibility. MOST guys DO stay involved unless the woman drives them away.

I'm wasting my time. You're ignored.

I paid my child support for nearly 20 years, and raised somegreat kids from my second marriage. MOST guys DO step up and take responsibility. MOST guys DO stay involved unless the woman drives them away.

Wonderful Great. I'm glad, honestly.

I wish all men were so honorable.

Unfortunately, they aren't.

Look at what happened when the State Department started denying passports to those who owed over$2500 in back child support.

$22.5 million dollars paid in just PART of 2007.

It's the woman's choice and business because men MAKE it their business. How many women do you think have an abortion without discussing it with the man in her life? How often do you think the men say, "don't worry, honey, we'll make it," and they go on to decide to abort? More often it's "whose is it?" or, bonus, pressure to abort so THEY won't get stuck paying support.

Now, I've accused you of nothing. I've been civil, stated facts, and stated my position without ripping on anyone. If you're unable to return the courtesy, please don't bother to respond.

Every article I've read, every compilation of data I've seen on the subject indicates that abortion is primarily FOR CONVENIENCE ONLY

Then you need to read different articles. Most of the articles I've read deal with money and family issues as the reasons for abortions.

And then there are the cases where I have a more direct knowledge. Okay, I admit, these were cases on in-patient units, so the women had serious health concerns. It was my job to listen and counsel -- not to convince. Sometimes they chose to abort, sometimes they chose to carry, sometimes I agreed, sometimes I did not, mostly I did not have an opinion. But those women did not know how I felt in their individual cases or even if I had an opinion. It was not my choice to make. It was my position to assist them in making the best choice for them.

However, in all these cases, I saw the hell these women went through in making that decision. I would never put more paperwork or hoops to jump through for them. Beleive me, it was NEVER "convenient." (And, no, I was never involved in the abortion or with an abortion clinic.)

Abortion is premeditated murder. Period.

"Premeditated murder" is a legal term and, under existing law, abortion is not murder. Period. I advise that you never have an abortion since you feel so strongly about it, even if it means you may die before you can carry the pregnancy to viabilty. (And, since you are a man, you will never have to face that choice.)

From a forensic standpoint, the death penalty is a homocide, but, again, legally, it is not murder.

Now tell me why the men involved with these btitches don't want to "take responsibility!" YOU bring it on your self. Sucks to be you. (generic "you")

Abortion is premeditated murder. Period. Try to alibi out of it when you stand before God on judgement day.

Nofleur,

What the hell's wrong with you? Aren't you capable of having a civic, courteous discussion on this topic? Given what has happened in the past month, hostile, judgmental rants worry me.

I'll try from a different angle. Do you think what the phramacist did in the article's setup was justified?

"Pro-life" is a misnomer, because few of the people whom I've met who call themselves that are concerned about life after a child has been born: 'You're on your own now.'; I think that "Supporters of Enforced Pregnancy" is a better term.

They've got this slogan, "The natural choice is Life;" actually, the natural "choice" for all things biological is that there is no choice. It's only our medical technologies that give us choices. And, since we are going to use those technologies, I'll leave it to the individual women and their consciences as to how they wish to apply them.

The natural choice may be life, but what of un-natural pregnancy?

I have trouble believing that my bodyis any-body else's business. If any-body believes otherwise, I believe I'll let them pay for the upkeep!

Thank you, Golden, well said.

You're welcome 3rdtime & Thanks

:)

Why does everyone act as if pro-life and pro-choice are mutually exclusive? Because they're NOT. They're not even the same issue. Being pro-life is a personal issue based on one's own beliefs and value system. Pro-choice is the issue of defending the freedom each individual as guaranteed by the Constitution.

For myself, I don't like abortion or the death penalty. That's my choice. But I also believe that each individual has the right to make that choice for themselves. That's THEIR choice, and none of my business. It is NOT my right to attempt to legislate against their right to choose, or to try to force them to live by my personal values.

(Originally a comment on the following article:

What should be the punishment for women who get an abortion, illegally

http://joulesbeef.newsvine.com/_news/2009/05/16/2823809-what-should-be-the-punishment-for-women-who-get-an-abortion-illegally?commentId=7116486#c7116486)

Uthaclena.........yep, I know and agree.

Funny, the same people that run around trying to hug everyone's pregnant bellies are the same people rushing to waterboard those they deem UnAmerican and ready to attack us.

Torture takes on many forms and in every form......it's WRONG.

You cannot be pro-life and be pro-torture.

Clear and Easy understanding of the entire debate.

ProLife/Anti Choice OR

ProChoice/ProAdvocate/ProAlternaitve/ProEducation/ProPrevention

Basic guidelines- #1 Freedom of Religion In the United States, freedom of religion is a constitutionally guaranteed right provided in the religion clauses of the First Amendment. Freedom of religion is also closely associated with separation of church and state, a concept advocated by Thomas Jefferson.

So it's established. Freedom or religion is a constitutional right. Just as Separation of Church and state are to upheld as well. I.E Keep your Bible in the house of the Lord NOT in the COURT HOUSE or in the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Pretty simple

#2 Right of Choice/Right to Abortion For more than 30 years, the Supreme Court has issued decisions that affect ordinary Americans' lives – from the use of birth control to women's access to safe, legal abortion care.On April 18, 2007, the Supreme Court handed down its decision to uphold the Federal Abortion Ban in Gonzales v. Carhart and Gonzales v. Planned Parenthood. This decision shows Bush's appointees moved the Court in a direction that could further undermine Roe v. Wade and protections for women's health http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/choice-action-center/us-gov/choice-in-the-courts/supreme-court/key-cases/

Now the simplicity if it all is. Unless you want me to show up at your church, and picket that fact that YOU are a Methodist, Evangelical,Catholic,Lutheran or what ever, and block the entrance to your church, or call your parishioners "haters of women's rights" or "oppressors". Or say that your parish does not acknowledge the laws you should be arrested for sedition.

Then you need to stop trying to violate the rights of women who want to get reproductive help,advice or services. It's that simple. Your Religion is protected by a law. Women's reproductive rights are protected. It can go both ways. If you want your rights to be violated, they can be. We can organize pickets at churches nationwide. It's not that hard. So the beauty of it is.. Have your opinion... Talk amongst yourselves at your coffee klatches and Bible study groups. But keep it there.

If you do not want ProChoice/ProEducation/ProWomensRights/ProAdvocate to infringe on your right to go to church... I think is pretty basic that the AntiChoice/AntiRIGHTSOFTHEALREADYLIVING need to not infringe on a woman's right to EVERY alternative and choice she is guaranteed under the law.

It's pretty simple. Have your opinion, but if you foist it on others and try to impede them, rest assured your entrance to your church or activity center or what ever will have a picket line. "ANTI HUMAN RIGHTS" signs will be displayed, "Anti Living Child Rights" signs as well..

Pretty clear.. pretty simple.. Keep to yours... let the pro RIGHTS people keep to ours... Easy enough.. There are Federal Laws that are inplace and since the FBI was negligent with Dr. Tiller you can bet your caboose, FACE is going to be TOP priority. I promise you. Show up and so much as touch a shirt sleeve of a woman entering a clinic for services and you can be arrested on Federal Charges. Simple... Be anti Choice on the Lawn of your Church and now where else.

As if thumping the over the head at the pulpit isn't enough........the pharmacy is next.....followed by....

Your forcing it on the pharmacist. So your what you hate?

No, Tim, the pharmacist is "forcing" the issue on himself when he takes a job with a pharmacy, company or hospital that dispenses birth control and/or the morning after pill. His job isn't to preach at those who come in, or lecture them, his job is to provide requested medication and fill prescriptions, following the orders of a doctor.

If we follow your thinking, a Christian Scientist could earn a Pharma.D. degree, get a job at Rite-Aid, then refuse to fill any scripts and just sit there--because doing so would violate his beliefs.

If a pharmacist is so concerned with his religious views, he should work at a religious based pharmacy or hospital or work for himself (provided he advertises and makes it known that he won't dispense certain drugs).

Well said, Karri.

Thanks, Rainkiss.